I vote libertarian, Obama was running on the democratic party ticket so he did not get my vote or my support. My concern for raptors is not based on their majesty h as their utility. Wolves and mountain lons as predators are very effectively replaced by man, raptors that have been driven out of any given area have not been effectively replaced by anything. Also do you think the conservation officer is going to be making decisions based on his sensibilities? I suspect that they will make their choices based on the population data that exsts regardng the species of hawk that is giving you the problems. With mammal species large litters can be produced, because of the realities of flight raptors can only have a few offspring and very few young birds make it to adulthood. Raptor populations can be very vulnerable, and we need them. Your attitude of "nothing matters if they are hurting my livestock" is a reckless one, one that on a whole has really damaged a lot of livestock. Look at the tragedy of the commons, or the depletion of fish stock. No one did those things with the intention to destroy their livelyhood, it was done because what is best for everyone is seldom a matter of each one of us doing what is best for ourselves. Shared resources must have access restricted, not completely but to a reasonable degree. The attitude that that restriction is unreasonable prevents a Nash equilibrium from emerging and prevents everyone from being sucessful. I am not telling you to not kill the hawk, I am telling you that you need to follow the laws, incompetence of local law enforcement aside. The Bald and Golden eagle protection act is about majesty, but the other acts regarding destruction or capture of hawks are based on ecology.

Alright now! You guys are confusin me! Ive checked my books and Ive googled a bunch of pictures onlineand I dont know what it was that was here. The pic of the bird I posted is a little misleading. The bird I saw was WAY browner than it looks in the pics. I know, I knowdont go by the color! And its sitting on the branch with its back toward me. I was amazed that I was able to get a pic when it turned its head in my direction briefly a couple times. Heres the third pic I got where you can (kinda) see that its facing away from mebut its the worst quality pic. I figured out why the pictures from upstairs are distorted! Theyre taken thru the screenand the birds on the feeders in the backyard look even worse because of the "down" angle of the camera thru the screen. The BIG bird isnt quite as bad since the neighbors yard is higher than mine, so it was taken on somewhat more of the same level with me. In the second pic above the bird had turned a little bit more sideways, but its still sitting on the branch facing away from me. With all the pictures Ive looked at, I really dont know, now, what it was. I first saw it on top of the lattice at my back fence, which is only about 25' away from the windowI have a very shallow backyardand I sure didnt notice any black eye stripe or black and white head striping. Actually, I didnt notice any black or gray at all. It sat on that branch and I watched it for close to 10 minutes. Tho the pic doesnt show it, it was brown and tan. I guess I havent found any immature pics, cause all the ones Ive found are very much gray to dark gray. I think the tail pointing down so much in the pic was as much a balancing act as anything. The branch it was on was very long and pretty small for such a large bird (at least 15-18"), and it was moving around a lot. So I dont think the position of the tail is telling in this case. And then theres still the problem of what the first bird I saw wasthe purpose of this post. It was really VERY different. When I saw the second one the next day I assumed it was a pair since males and females can be quite different in size and colorand since a lot of birds do travel around in pairs, but the closest picture Ive found yet of the original bird is the first pic I linked of the Gray Hawkwhich we all agree is wasnt! But it was exactly like that picture, but lighteralmost whitewith very obvious, wide, dark banding on the tailwhich was very widely fanned when it flew away. Maybe I just need to concede thatunless one or both come back and I get better picturesIm never going to know for sure what they were. Whatever they were, Im glad I got to see them! Skybird (who is easily identifiable by the arms and legsand the uniform!) P.S. Digit, my pair of robins (that are here all winter) nest in my backyard every year, but that obviously has nothing to do with the feeders. I do think it might have to do with the constant water sourceand the easy access to worms in the worked soil in the veggie garden. And there was a nest in one of the neighbors cottonwoods that overhangs my yard, but I dont know what was in it! I only know it was there because its been falling into my backyard all fall and winter! Other than that I havent seen any other nests, but then I dont actually have any deciduous trees, and Ive never seen any nests in the two upright junipersand I dont have any bird houses out since I dont have anywhere to hang them. Wait! I've had a house sparrow nest in the Euonymous that grows up the side of my house right by the steps down off of the deck every year! Do they count as birds? They've been building it on top of the bend in the downspout where they were completely hidden by the foliage. But they won't be back! I've pulled almost all of the Euonymous down! It was growing up under the siding and the shingles!

Looking forward to that raptor page help you might get Elaine... Because I wouldn't be surprised this would be - yet again a new species thrown in here for good measure! - an immature, light phase, SWAINSON's hawk! Way back out East from its normal range! But there >hasThe one detail that leads me to this species, relying solely on the Peterson guide, is the absence of dark band on the TIP of the tail, which your excellent photos seem to reveal. In the book I see no other non-accipiter hawk (wings do seem too long for an accipiter) with barred chest and banded tail that shows this characteristic. MAXIMUM dimensions are also quite smaller than a Red-tail's. This would be a great bird finding for you to report to the specialists!

Hi Jane! It's been my pleasure (really!) since I enjoy testing my raptor ID skills when I am unable to get outside and do it for real (either due to schedule limitations or birds not cooperating). Raptor ID is something I've been working on for a year or two now; only recently did I become any good at it. Hawks used to look all the same to me. I claimed to love them but I knew so little about them. I had to learn to notice the fine details and become adept at pointing them out quickly. Sometimes a glimpse is all you get. I believe those two guides you purchased will serve you (or anyone) well. The general Eastern guide is a great visual tool but Crossley doesn't have the space on each page to really break down the field marks that make each species unique. His raptor guide will probably be better for that, but I had to purchase Hawks in Flight to REALLY get into the details of real-time ID. Perched birds are easy to master; soaring hawks requires a lot of practice. I have also used online articles (American Birding Association/ Jerry Liguori) to learn new things, especially concerning the amazing diversity of Red-tailed Hawks. I have also learned a lot from experienced birders. I still have a ton to learn so I lurk forums such as these. Gives me an excuse to read a little more about IDing raptors. I have another tip that has helped me TREMENDOUSLY when IDing raptors (birds in general). Always weed out the unlikely/impossible species first. Check: - Location/range (you'll not likely find a Swainson's Hawk in New England unless during spring/fall migration) - Season (Broad-winged Hawks are in s. America during the winter) - Behavior (Northern Goshawks are notoriously elusive forest hawks and are the least likely Accipiter at a bird feeder). Rule out what it ISN'T and you'll likely have a much narrower list of what it could be. After that it comes down to field marks, shape, flying style, etc. If you are lucky enough to hear the hawk's call, then you are well on your way. Cornell Lab of Ornithology's All About Birds has recordings of bird sounds and it's a great reference. I'm sure I left a million things out but that's mostly what I wanted to say. This post was edited by TMFF on Sun, Mar 10, 13 at 17:15