Thanks C3D, It sounds like an interesting option. Yes, her fluid is totally clear. I did ask the vet if she could have a cardiovascular collapse after removing too much, and she said it could happen, but probably wouldn't. I have taken out tons at a time, and she was fine with it. Although I realize that might not always be the case. I hadn't thought about the need for high protein. She seems to be eating her Layena well. Maybe I should supplement her with some dry cat food? I think its higher protein. When we drain her, I've been using an angiocath. It works great because I can withdraw the needle, and leave a more flexible tube in there, while I draw out the fluid. I've been reusing them, after soaking them in a 15% bleach solution. I usually give her 2 days of Baytril after the procedure. She has never gotten infected. Too bad we can't drain her from on top of her! I can't even pick her up without her comb darkening. When I first brought her in from the coop, when she was having more problems, she would appear to just about arrest if we held her, but would revive if we quickly put her down. It just seems that, over the course of last year, I'm getting less and less fluid out. And it feels like something is displacing what was open areas in her abdomen with solid mass..........so maybe she's got several things going on. Hubby didn't think he had anymore angiocaths, but did find an 18 gauge....which would be good. It takes about10-15 minutes at least, to draw off the fluid. I was thinking, since she can't tolerate being held, maybe I could quickly make 3-4 punctures in her, and things could drain by gravity? She used to drain alot afterwards too....which was good. But in the last year, she doesn't drain like that anymore. I suppose scratch isn't good for her, right? She loves it so much. I give her a little every day, just to let her satisfy that need to find things on the floor! I had another buff orp, Floppsie, who had a big firm abdomen too. I drained her, but it was bright green. Not a good sign. She died shortly after that. What would the green mean? I was thinking it had something to do with sepsis from maybe internal egg laying?? Too bad most vets know so little about chickens. I'm lucky to be so close to the only Avian vet in the state. I do spend time on a chicken forum, which is very helpful too. But I sort of decided awhile back, after spending hundreds of dollars on them, that I would make them comfortable, but would pretty much try to take care of them myself. I'm okay with that position........but its still not an easy one. I had 17 hens to start with, and now I'm down to 11. Each and every death is so hard on me. I think I lost a couple to maybe broken necks from falling off the roost. Whitney had some problem I never figured out, but she survived. She was in her own cage for a long time, and when she seemed quite strong again, I put her with the others for a very short time, while I was right there. Of course, they all jumped on her, and I quickly removed her and put her back in her own cage. I went out a couple hours later, and she was dead. I was so mad at myself. That was a hard one to get over. They're all hard to get over! I'm not looking forward to the next 11! I love those girls. Thanks for your help Chickadee.

Nice owl! From the back I wouldn't have been able to identify it as an owl. It's amazing how similar raptor backs look - I guess that's a very effective camouflage pattern for a tree dweller. I wonder if sparrow backs work best in grassy environments. I can empathize with your DH slipping while trying to photograph the owl. When I was leaving my NYC neighborhood I wanted to take a photo from the sidewalk of the Siberian Elm outside my window. While backing up I tripped on the railing of the building steps next door and almost fell into the stairwell. I managed to grab the railing and pull myself back up without damaging me or the camera but it was a close call. Claire

whenever I hear people discussing ways to discourage the sparrow I have to ask myself why? As You can easily see from my photo's when there is an abundant supply of food the birds will all mingle well. From my observation it is only when the food is in short supply that they really begin to be territorial. The question then becomes, why is the seed in short supply? No doubt the answer here is simple economics. People don't care to spend a lot of money on expensive birdseed, only to have it consumed by the less desirable birds and they don't get to see the species they are really interested in. From my experience the solution here is to shop around for your wild bird seed. By example, we have a local store that caters specifically to feeding and attracting wild birds. They sell a general mix of wild bird seed for $15 for a 20lb bag. On the other hand, Walmart has 20lb bags of the same seed for $10, however at Walmart it is a seasonal item and by now you probably can't find it. How would you like to find a year around source that has a better selection at prices far below the average retail store prices? In almost every community there is a store that specializes in selling feed, grain and hay for horses or farm animals. When my sister goes to the feed mill to buy feed for her horses I tag along and buy 50# bags of premium wild bird seed (mixed seed & peanuts) for $12 plus I buy a 50# bag of black oilseed sunflower seed for another $13. I then mix the two together and I end up with a premium blend for an average of $.25/lb. If you cannot find a Feed & grain supply in your community check out TSC (Tractor Supply Co.) TSC is also a great place to find feeders of all types for prices far below what you find in the regular retail stores, but then feeders are so simple to build i don't see why anyone would pay the prices they ask in most stores. While we are on the subject of bird feed, you may be surprised at how much you throw away every month without realizing it. When you bake a ham or a roast trim off the excess fat and put that in your suet feeder, the birds love it. At my house we all love to eat acorn or butternut squash. When you hollow out the seeds put them out for the birds, here again, they love it. Making a salad? Save the carrot peelings of the birds and by all means, be sure to save your orange or grapefruit peelings. I have seen a Bluejay grab an entire half section grapefruit peel and fly it up into the pine tree. Stale popcorn, potato chips, pretzels, breakfast cereal and cookies all go over well with the birds and as silly as it may sound, even leftover porky beans, whole kernel corn or green beans will quickly disappear when the birds find them. As you can see, I have taken feeding the birds rather seriously however to tell the truth it is more an means to an end. Since I retired last June I have taken up nature photography as a hobby, and since it is a bit too cold to get out in the woods like i would like to do, this is a way i can bring nature to me while i comfortably sit in the house...LOL. Gein that the subject of this thread was how to attract cardinals I thought i might post a couple more Cardinal Picks, along with one of my favorite pics of a Bluejay.

I make my suet mixture using suet or lard. I melt the fat in a glass bowl in the microwave until liquid. Then I add crunchy peanut butter, which melts in the hot fat. Then I add the dried ingredients - corn meal, flour, oats (usually ground in blender), ground eggshells, crushed nuts, a little jam or jelly, etc. The mixture is about 1/2 fat, 1/2 dried ingredients - maybe a little more dried. I aim for a mixture that is the texture of Play-doh - it clumps together easily for the suet log, but also crumbles into pieces that I spread in a tray feeder. I made the suet log over 3 years ago out of an old red Pine log and glued lots of perches and branches. It did not have much bark on it - which is fine, except that over time the log has darkened quite a bit, perhaps because of the oils in the suet mixture. Also, most of the perches and branches have broken and fallen off. This birds don't seem to care. If you put perches on the log, this will enable many more birds to eat more easily. However, this isn't necessarily a good thing because with mine, it enables the Starlings and Blue Jays to hog the suet log, and it encourages House Sparrows. My suet log is pole-mounted with a squirrel/raccoon baffle, so nothing gets onto the log but the birds. Here's what the suet mixture looks like - Some Bluebirds on the suet log a couple years ago. They don't eat that much on the suet log any more, because I usually spread crumbles in a tray for them.